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	<title>Comments on: Against letter grades</title>
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		<title>By: Anyworld</title>
		<link>http://alex.halavais.net/against-letter-grades/comment-page-1#comment-204939</link>
		<dc:creator>Anyworld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.halavais.net/?p=2144#comment-204939</guid>
		<description>Feh. Like anyone obeys federal law these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feh. Like anyone obeys federal law these days.</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://alex.halavais.net/against-letter-grades/comment-page-1#comment-204925</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.halavais.net/?p=2144#comment-204925</guid>
		<description>Well, students will still be getting letter grades for the class. I don&#039;t know. They just don&#039;t signify much to me. But as long as we are giving them, I am not opposed to giving them publicly. Unfortunately, federal law prohibits doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, students will still be getting letter grades for the class. I don&#8217;t know. They just don&#8217;t signify much to me. But as long as we are giving them, I am not opposed to giving them publicly. Unfortunately, federal law prohibits doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Crowder</title>
		<link>http://alex.halavais.net/against-letter-grades/comment-page-1#comment-204923</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Crowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.halavais.net/?p=2144#comment-204923</guid>
		<description>I was at Hampshire College way back when and they did the Evergreen thing, too. (Markup test &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hampshire.edu/discover/433.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.) Transferring was fun, because admissions simply couldn&#039;t make heads or tails out of the Hampshire evaluations. Having experienced both systems, I far prefer grading. It is a transparent and unambiguous system. What&#039;s more, I&#039;ll go a step further: Colleges should go back to the old system where they POST students&#039; grades in public locations. It is a great way to harness the power of peer pressure (which these days leads kids to beer bongs rather than better grades). And, frankly, I think it would help cull some of the dead wood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at Hampshire College way back when and they did the Evergreen thing, too. (Markup test <a href="http://www.hampshire.edu/discover/433.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>.) Transferring was fun, because admissions simply couldn&#8217;t make heads or tails out of the Hampshire evaluations. Having experienced both systems, I far prefer grading. It is a transparent and unambiguous system. What&#8217;s more, I&#8217;ll go a step further: Colleges should go back to the old system where they POST students&#8217; grades in public locations. It is a great way to harness the power of peer pressure (which these days leads kids to beer bongs rather than better grades). And, frankly, I think it would help cull some of the dead wood.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex H.</title>
		<link>http://alex.halavais.net/against-letter-grades/comment-page-1#comment-204878</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.halavais.net/?p=2144#comment-204878</guid>
		<description>McChris: Yes, absolutely. And it&#039;s hard--when they are so grade motivated--not to use grades as motivation. But I&#039;m trying to get out of that cycle.

Mom: One of the faculty in business at UW, I think, used to have students all give him flash cards with a head shot on one side and their name on the back side, and then carried them around and quizzed himself on the names. He promised an A in the course to anyone whom he couldn&#039;t name by the end of the semester, but never had to deliver on that.

I have to say, although I almost always have a participation component in my courses, it&#039;s really hard to assign a grade to it. Generally, you have a mass of people who you have very little impression of--the ones you remember are those who were most active or who were *completely* silent. While exam grades are generally normally distributed (it always surprises me how they fit to that curve in large classes), participation is almost necessarily a power-law distribution of some sort: 80% are just not going to be active participants.

And then there is the question of what &quot;active participation&quot; might mean. I think that most of the people who talk a lot generally  have something good to say, but we&#039;ve all had people in our classes who talk a lot and have nothing worthwhile to say. And then there are those who only say three things during the whole semester, but those three things are absolutely brilliant. I&#039;m clear in my syllabus that &quot;participation&quot; means having something worthwhile and informed to say, but it&#039;s still really difficult to convey that idea.

And some people--extroverts, men, etc.--seem to be disproportionately represented in participation. That&#039;s kind of OK for me, since for many of my courses, a student will do very well in the blogging, but not in class, or the other way around. Multiple learning styles and all that. 

You might have them bring in questions that they plan to ask and have them turn them in on slips of paper. Then, even if they don&#039;t get the chance to get their question in, they can at least get credit for thinking of one.

In any case, I don&#039;t think I could as easily abandon traditional grades in a 50-person class, though I might turn to forced ranks as an experiment there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McChris: Yes, absolutely. And it&#8217;s hard&#8211;when they are so grade motivated&#8211;not to use grades as motivation. But I&#8217;m trying to get out of that cycle.</p>
<p>Mom: One of the faculty in business at UW, I think, used to have students all give him flash cards with a head shot on one side and their name on the back side, and then carried them around and quizzed himself on the names. He promised an A in the course to anyone whom he couldn&#8217;t name by the end of the semester, but never had to deliver on that.</p>
<p>I have to say, although I almost always have a participation component in my courses, it&#8217;s really hard to assign a grade to it. Generally, you have a mass of people who you have very little impression of&#8211;the ones you remember are those who were most active or who were *completely* silent. While exam grades are generally normally distributed (it always surprises me how they fit to that curve in large classes), participation is almost necessarily a power-law distribution of some sort: 80% are just not going to be active participants.</p>
<p>And then there is the question of what &#8220;active participation&#8221; might mean. I think that most of the people who talk a lot generally  have something good to say, but we&#8217;ve all had people in our classes who talk a lot and have nothing worthwhile to say. And then there are those who only say three things during the whole semester, but those three things are absolutely brilliant. I&#8217;m clear in my syllabus that &#8220;participation&#8221; means having something worthwhile and informed to say, but it&#8217;s still really difficult to convey that idea.</p>
<p>And some people&#8211;extroverts, men, etc.&#8211;seem to be disproportionately represented in participation. That&#8217;s kind of OK for me, since for many of my courses, a student will do very well in the blogging, but not in class, or the other way around. Multiple learning styles and all that. </p>
<p>You might have them bring in questions that they plan to ask and have them turn them in on slips of paper. Then, even if they don&#8217;t get the chance to get their question in, they can at least get credit for thinking of one.</p>
<p>In any case, I don&#8217;t think I could as easily abandon traditional grades in a 50-person class, though I might turn to forced ranks as an experiment there.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Halavais</title>
		<link>http://alex.halavais.net/against-letter-grades/comment-page-1#comment-204877</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Halavais</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.halavais.net/?p=2144#comment-204877</guid>
		<description>University of California, Santa Cruz, of course, used narrative grading. I recently sat down with a re-entry student for advising, and so have actually seen a UCSC transcript.  I also have a friend who graduated from a private university&#039;s &quot;experimental&quot; college back in the good old days (um - the sixties), and then faced the task of explaining his transcripts to some bemused folks in graduate admissions at The University of Chicago.

For spring, I will be planning fewer graded assignments (reviews, essays, research papers, examinations) and will be including &quot;participation&quot; as a significant component of the grade. (Actually, it&#039;s always between 10-15% for my classes; I&#039;m just going to make it a higher percentage in the spring.) 

So, how will I measure &quot;participation&quot; in a general education class of 48-60? (Hmmm - thought we were a &quot;small university,&quot; did you? The GE classes are telling...) I think I will learn the students&#039; names REALLY quickly this semester. Wish me luck-M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>University of California, Santa Cruz, of course, used narrative grading. I recently sat down with a re-entry student for advising, and so have actually seen a UCSC transcript.  I also have a friend who graduated from a private university&#8217;s &#8220;experimental&#8221; college back in the good old days (um &#8211; the sixties), and then faced the task of explaining his transcripts to some bemused folks in graduate admissions at The University of Chicago.</p>
<p>For spring, I will be planning fewer graded assignments (reviews, essays, research papers, examinations) and will be including &#8220;participation&#8221; as a significant component of the grade. (Actually, it&#8217;s always between 10-15% for my classes; I&#8217;m just going to make it a higher percentage in the spring.) </p>
<p>So, how will I measure &#8220;participation&#8221; in a general education class of 48-60? (Hmmm &#8211; thought we were a &#8220;small university,&#8221; did you? The GE classes are telling&#8230;) I think I will learn the students&#8217; names REALLY quickly this semester. Wish me luck-M.</p>
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		<title>By: McChris</title>
		<link>http://alex.halavais.net/against-letter-grades/comment-page-1#comment-204871</link>
		<dc:creator>McChris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alex.halavais.net/?p=2144#comment-204871</guid>
		<description>This probably gets at the heart of what you&#039;ve just said, but I find it aggravating when students are more focused on grades than the material in the course. I&#039;m a grad student in a department where undergrads have to apply to be upper-division majors, but it seems like the greatest disappointment comes from students who are far from borderline - they just want confirmation that they&#039;re putting in the requisite amount of effort for an A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This probably gets at the heart of what you&#8217;ve just said, but I find it aggravating when students are more focused on grades than the material in the course. I&#8217;m a grad student in a department where undergrads have to apply to be upper-division majors, but it seems like the greatest disappointment comes from students who are far from borderline &#8211; they just want confirmation that they&#8217;re putting in the requisite amount of effort for an A.</p>
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